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Ok Denny.It’s been close to a year since you posted this and nobody seems to be interested in giving you their thoughts so far. So… I will share a few of mine.
It seems to me that with regard to buying your own pad for your RV Vs. renting as you go (either staying put or moving from place to place) there are both advantages and disadvantages in either option. I think it would be much the same as with a sticks and bricks home.
When you rent a house or apartment you don’t have to worry about property taxes. When the water heater or furnace blows up in February, you don’t have to find the money and the contractor to fix it. You simply call the landlord.
But, you also can’t dig up the yard and turn it into a dessert landscape or put in a new flower bed without the landlord giving permission. Also, you don’t build equity in the property. You probably have to get the landlord’s permission even if you want to repaint a room. And if the landlord decides to raise the rent or not to renew your lease, you could be forced to make some changes.
Flip these things around and look at the ownership side. You DO have to worry about property taxes and how to get that furnace fixed, etc…
You DON’T need anyone’s permission to paint a room, Nobody is going to raise your “rent” unless you have an escrow shortage at the end of the year, etc…
Now let’s add the RV lifestyle to the scenario.
Why do people choose RV living? For some it is a financial decision. For those people, buying their own pad probably isn’t a viable option in the short term or near future. If they want to own their own pad, they will probably have to take a little time to recover from the financial speed bump that prompted their decision. They may already own property or they may have family that owns property which they can live on anyway.
For many though, it is the ability to live a mobile lifestyle that prompted them to choose RV living. They don’t want to be tethered to just one place. They want to adventure their way through life at their own pace. For these people, I would guess that owning their own pad isn’t a particularly appealing option.
Another consideration is the ordinances of the local community. Some may ban full time RV living on otherwise undeveloped lots in a residential zone. This may force one to go outside of the city limits, but even the county will likely have a few regulations that must be considered. If you are looking at a spot in an existing RV park, there may be certain legal and zoning issues that prevent the property from being sub-divided and so you can’t get a clear and legal deed even if you made an agreement for purchase.
Another thought is that if you took a loan and bought your own pad you would (likely) have payments to make. Now if you wanted to take off for a month or two and travel, you would have all your living expenses PLUS the payment on your pad. It might make some people’s budget go into crisis mode. I know mine would if I went full time for 3 months while still having a payment and utilities on my sticks and bricks home.
Bottom line is that while either option poses advantages, I’m guessing that many full timers wouldn’t be looking to buy a pad. Maybe it would be 50/50? I just don’t know. But if I was full timing and wanted to own a spot, I’d look at buying a small house and becoming a weekender. But that’s just me and this whole post is simply my opinion.
Hi all. I thought I would jump in with a thought or two.
As far as RVing goes, I can’t say that I have experience with anything more severe than early and late season boondocking but since I have lived in Iowa most of my life (subtract the years I spent in the navy-lol) and have lived in some drafty old houses in both rural (farm land) and small town settings, I know a little about making the cold less uncomfortable. To many of you this comment may be like “I knew that, Duh” But to some, I hope it will give them ideas or help them to apply sticks and bricks technology to the RV.
It seems to me that there are two ways to winter in your RV. One is to remain mobile taking trips to wherever you choose and the other is to winter in place. I’ll comment on wintering in place as it more closely matches my life experience and honestly, I know pretty much nothing about mobile winter camping-lol.
If you are wintering in place, you are likely either on your own land or you are in a purpose rented spot for wintering over. The rules will vary depending upon which, but I’ll assume that you are on your own land and that it is pretty much out away from town so zoning laws aren’t an issue and you can do pretty much whatever you want.
Two big things to look at are insulation and sealing up air leaks. Yeah, there are other concerns too like water systems and heating systems, but I’ll not try to talk about those. I love the expanding foam for sealing up air leaks. I’m not sure how much R value it provides though. The double pane windows are a great idea, but for me and I imagine some others they are not an option dut to the cost of the retrofit. (Read on for some window ideas) Insulation types vary in their R values and other properties so do your research and don’t forget about the moisture barriers. (Think of foil faced fiberglass batting that is often used in the walls of houses Vs. foam panels. Obviously the fiberglass batts wouldn’t be right for most RV applications.) Pippi did a great video on adding insulation to her rig. If you haven’t seen it, give it a watch. There are many areas where you can easily beef up the insulation in your rig. I think Pippi mentioned using reflectix in the back of your cabinets for one thing. In my rig there is a spot under the master bed pedestal/frame that simply begs for some insulation help.
Humidity control. This is important for comfort and it is something that I haven’t heard much talk about in the RVing videos and forums. You don’t want to be cold and wet. Too much humidity makes it feel much colder but it also makes heat feel hotter. 90 degrees F isn’t too bad when the humidity is around 20%, but let the humidity increase to 70% and you’ll feel quite a difference. It’s the same with the cold. A wet cold is harder to endure than a dry cold. With temperatures at 65 degrees F, if you are wet you can easily go into hypothermia in under an hour. Ok, that is an extreme example, but think about having wet gloves from clearing the snow off your car. While the gloves are normally adequate, once they get wet it quickly feels as though your hands are encased in big blocks of ice. The humidity in our living spaces has a similar, though less pronounced effect. If you give closer attention to the humidity control, you can be comfortable at temperatures that might seem a bit chilly otherwise. Consider using some of those moisture absorbers from the dollar store. Place them in areas that tend to have issues with condensation. They’ll help the condensation a little, but the overall effect will be to decrease the humidity in your rig to (hopefully) more comfortable levels.
Carpeting. Now I don’t see carpeting as having a lot of insulating value, until, that is, you get out of bed in the middle of the night and put your bare feet on a cold hardwood, linoleum, or tile floor. I have heard carpeting mentioned a few times in forums and in YouTube videos. One even suggested trying to get some carpet samples for free from the stores. I wish that person luck in finding free carpet samples. All the stores in my area now charge for them. I’d suggest simply buying a small amount of carpeting and cutting it to size.
Most carpeting is sold by the square foot. It comes on either 12 or 16 foot wide rolls. If you were to buy…let’s say 2 feet off the roll, you would have a nice 2 X 12 foot piece that you could cut to length with a utility knife. You’d only be purchasing 24 sqft and when you buy it without the pad and you aren’t paying them to install it, it is cheaper than many people think. Want it wider? Buy a 3 foot piece and you have 36 sqft. Now compare that to let’s say a room that is 9 X 12 which would require 108 sqft to cover. Another obvious advantage is that everything will match and you can pretty much get replacement pieces whenever part of it wears out.
Windows. Two items are quite useful here. One is foam weatherstrip usually intended for sealing leaks around doors. It can help to plug those air leaks between the panes of sliding windows and other places. It has adhesive on one side so you just peel off the backing and stick it in place. Get creative-lol.
The other very useful item is called rope caulk. It is sold in rolls of varying size and it simply presses in place with your fingers. (wear disposable gloves if you have sensitive skin, but otherwise it is safe to handle and doesn’t make a mess in application. It is pet safe too, unless your pet decides to eat it.) Although it is better to apply it in warm weather, rope caulk can be applied at somewhat lower temperatures than many other agents. (But it does have its limits.) Best of all, it doesn’t harden up (Well not for much longer than a single winter season, anyway. I have had it come of my house windows easily after being in place for 3 years.) so it is easy to remove in the spring. It is also relatively inexpensive which is an added bonus.Skirting. I’m a firm believer in skirting. I’d bet that anyone who has lived in an older style (Tin box) mobile home will agree that it is essential. There are several materials that are commonly used for skirting including plywood, aluminum panels and some others. You may want to consider alternate materials for your skirting. In the past I’ve seen many mobile homes on farmsteads that were skirted with the small square hay bales. (about 100-120 lbs each) You have trouble finding those these days but there are still some to be had. The bales are compressed tightly enough and are thick enough to give a pretty good insulating value. Probably better R value than most commercial insulations since the short dimension on them is around 18 inches. When they are butted up against each other (tightly) end to end, the wind can’t penetrate unless it is truly hurricane force. If you talk to the farmer you can probably buy his “spoiled” bales at a substantial discount. These are the bales that have some small flaw that prevents the farmer from selling them or using them as feed for livestock. The last I heard, those small square bales were going for around $5 each. Whatever you decide to use for skirting, it is important to make sure there are no gaps. Overlap panels a bit if you are using panels and secure each piece to the next with screws to prevent the wind from carrying one away just when it is needed most.
Wind break. Some sort or either natural or artificial wind break is also desirable. A wind break can make a big difference on both your heating bill and your comfort levels during a great plains winter. A thick stand of trees within 50 feet would probably do nicely. You could also use the terrain as a wind break if you have hilly property. If a natural wind break isn’t available, you could make a reasonably effective one by placing a row of the large round hay bales on the windward side. Because they aren’t as tall, they should be closer to the rig. I’d guess 25 feet would be about right. These bales usually weigh 1000-1200 lbs and would have to be moved in by a tractor with the appropriate attachment. Even a few panels of 6 foot privacy fence from the home improvement store can be used to reduce the amount of wind that (directly) hits your rig and robs it of heat or finds that one spot you didn’t find when you sealed up the air leaks.
Garaging. I have seen a few YouTube videos where people put their rig inside of one of those “u-build-it” garages as they winter in it. You know the kind I’m talking about. The ones with the tubular steel frames and either heavy (tarp-like) cloth or corrugated metal for the roof and sides. They leave one end open but close up the other 3 sides. I can’t say that I have any experience in that kind of setup, but the principle seems sound.
Sallyport doorway. Consider using some heavy blankets and command hooks to make a sallyport at your entrance door. When you open your door, lots of heat and cold go through. If you go through several times a day, your rig gets cold and you spend more on heat. Creating a sallyport at your entrance door, helps block the air currents that rob you of heat. Once the entrance door is closed, open the overlapping curtain and proceed inside. The amount of heat loss will be less.
Again, these things are offered with the assumption that you will be wintering in place on your own land without restrictions on what you can do. I hope this gave at least one person food for thought. Thanks for reading. Happy and comfortable wintering over to you all.
Just a thought on your charger idea.
Check out some videos on YouTube where people are using solar garden/pathway lights to make phone chargers. The build isn’t hard and you only need a few of the lights. Old ones that have quit working are usually fine as it is most often the small rechargeable battery inside that goes bad and not the solar cell itself.
Yeah, most of the videos show an ugly result cosmetically, but that isn’t hard to fix with a small wooden box from the second hand store or build your own if you are handy with wood.
Basically, these people remove the battery and the small circuit board leaving just the solar cell in its little housing. Then they wire them in series to get the right voltage and mount them on a small piece of wood. Last is to solder the connector (such as a USB port) onto the output side and you have a simple phone charger.
I can’t tell you all the specific electrical specs, so if you decide to play with this, check out your numbers carefully. You don’t want to “blow up” your phone or its battery. Most solar pathway lights (that I’ve seen) have cells that produce about 2 volts and ?? maybe a quarter of an Amp in full direct sunlight. Be sure to test it out before you risk your phone. They can be expensive to replace-lol.
My preferred way though is using an emergency phone power cell that uses a pair of AA batteries and has a USB connector. They fit easily in a pocket or purse. You can find them at dollar stores. If you use rechargeable AA batteries, you’ll easily have a renewable source of phone power available, but of course you’ll have to charge the batteries from somewhere. If your phone battery is completely dead, You may have to plug the power cell in and wait a couple of minutes before you can boot up your phone.
I kind of thought though that your intent was to be able to use the screen of your phone as a “solar cell” to charge the battery. In that case, it is probably possible but would probably also require adding some additional circuitry to the phone’s hardware thereby making it impractical except for the original manufacturer. BTW, manufacturers are unlikely to embrace this idea because they want to sell you another battery or a new phone instead of making one that lasts longer and functions better in the long term. They make more money that way. Just my humble opinion.
I can’t even begin to disagree with the previous comments here.
I’m commenting here based on long term experience with boats in both ocean and inland waters. The experience I have is mainly with sailing boats of 30 feet or less, but I did help a friend for a couple of seasons who had a 44 foot ketch.
In my humble opinion and experience, the cigarette lighter type plugs are often not capable of handling heavy loads. (I’ve blown more than a few fuses in coming to that opinion-lol.) It may be due to the construction of the circuit or to the plug/sockets themselves. You may find it workable depending on all the specifics.
Since you are talking about using this on your boat, (you didn’t specify the type of boat or where/how it will be used) there is the issue of keeping your connections all dry. It seems that there is no place on a boat that stays completely dry all the time-LOL. I don’t remember the cigarette lighter plug/socket sets as being very good at providing an all weather service capability.
Even though it is more work/hassle, I would probably opt for wiring in a separate weatherproof/waterproof connector set. I realize that you said you didn’t want to do that, but there is the advantage that you can be sure that everything is properly sized to handle the loads and still maintain a comfortable safety margin.
Also, it would allow you to locate the connectors where it is convenient and where it is the most practical for sizing the circuit (i.e. wire gauge,
length of wire run from the panels to the batteries, etc…)Again, just my humble opinion.
Yes John. I do see the difference. My thoughts were along the lines of using the device as a supplement to the alternator when there would be a drive of several hours or more. I.e. you’re already going to be using the fuel and engine. I too wondered about the additional drag (I’ll just call it that to simplify things) that the device would cause. I wondered if it would create a noticeable increase in fuel consumption during the trip and would the output be large enough to make the exercise worthwhile.
I think it would be a cool experiment, but I won’t be investigating it further till next year if ever. It was a fun idea to share and discuss, I thought but it’ll probably remain just an idea as I have plenty of bigger fish to fry-LOL. I do appreciate your insights on the matter.
P.S. I’m looking to extend my trips from the current 2-3 days to stays of 4-6 days. Not huge and I could probably do just fine with what I have, but…
I want a nice piece of mind/safety margin where my battery bank is concerned.
Thanks John T. I appreciate the very helpful info. I have now added the third group 27 battery and my battery box is full, so If I were to add more or go to golf cart batteries, I’d have to rebuild it or build a new one. That isn’t something I’m prepared to do at this point. I have read much about the golf cart batteries and they seem to be a better long term choice for energy storage. )Read that as greater storage capacity and better longevity/lifetime of the batteries with deep cycling.) For now, I’m going to stay within budget and keep my 12 volt batteries.
My boondocking trips are usually only 2-3 days and I am judicious about my electric use, so I don’t anticipate a problem. I’d like to add solar, but maybe next year-lol.
I have replaced all the interior lighting with LED bulbs which are rated at about 3 Watts as opposed to the original incandescent ones that used ?? Was it 10 or 30 Watts? I don’t remember exactly but I do remember thinking that I could now run every light in the interior simultaneously and use the same amount of power that just 2 of the old ones used. (not that I’ll ever be using all the lights at once-lol.) I also never run electrically powered heating appliances (such as a Mr. Coffee) unless I’m hooked to shore power. Since my favorite boondocking spot is only 20 miles from home, I usually don’t even bother to put the frig on DC power while driving back and forth. I just fire it up with the propane once I arrive. Last year, I did fine with just my 2 batteries, (never took them below 11.5 volts and that was only once.) but I wanted to add the third for piece of mind.
Yes, I have a digital multimeter. It’s a cheap one from the big box store, but it does have a DC amps measurement function. I have never used that function and I appreciate you schooling me a bit. I’ll give it a shot and see what I find out.
The roof vent fan is easy enough to get to for measurement right at the fan motor. For the water pump, I’ll probably go to the battery box as you described.
Now thinking about the solar, what do you think of one of the 150 Watt briefcase systems I see advertised? Do they function as advertised or are they really just junk? I understand that most often, we get what we pay for, but on some of the higher end items we pay a lot just for the brand name without any real increase in quality. So the cheapest version is out as is the most expensive. Somewhere in the middle is usually where I go. I’m looking to spend about $500 next year on a solar supplement system. Do you think that is realistic?
Thanks again for the advice.
My understanding…
Heat pumps draw heat from the environment instead of using traditional methods to create heat. They use slightly less power (or so I am told) than traditional heating systems. The downside is that they are only useful/effective down to a certain temperature. For probably most users, they would be adequate for early or late season camping where the temps won’t fall below 40.
As to power consumption, a heat pump will probably be too power hungry to run off a solar system. Unless that is, you size the solar system properly. I’m kind of thinking that the system would have to be too large to make it practical for an RV. You’ll probably have to supplement your solar system with a genset.
As to how they work, I’m no expert but I guess a reasonably simple version would be to look at how your refrigerator works when you run it on gas. Then reverse the process from creating cold to creating heat.
The HVAC guys and gals out there will probably take issue with that explanation, but for a layman like me, it’s close enough.
Good luck and please let us know what you decide for your solution.
